Council President Martin J. Sweeney shares vision for future of City of Cleveland

(Plain Press, April 2010) Editor’s Note: Plain Press reporters Chuck Hoven and Joe Narkin interviewed Cleveland City Council President Martin J. Sweeney (Ward 18) at his City Council Office in early March 2010. Questions or statements from the Plain Press reporters are in bold print. Sweeney’s responses follow in plain type.

Plain Press: Long range to start – Where would you like to see the city in five years from now in terms of a policy agenda? What kind of focus in terms of priorities for the city for the next five years? Do you have an established legislative agenda?

City Council President Martin J. Sweeney: We had a published book at the end of last year. We are probably going to have one by the end of first quarter of this year. Would you like a copy of that?

Yeah.

Five years from now I’d like to see us out of the foreclosure crisis and see what the new reinvented city of Cleveland looks like in terms the housing market and consolidation of the parcels that became part of the county land bank/city land bank. Is it, instead of all houses, is there a new use for commercial, is there a new use for a garden – stuff like that-- as a priority for the City of Cleveland?

Another priority -- at the same level. The first time ever we had our income tax have a significant dip.

How significant?

7.8% it went down last year. That’s what caused our need to make some revenue adjustments to the budget this year, with garbage fee, the furlough days, and the longevity pay and some layoffs for the unions that didn’t want to comply.

A tremendous focus on making the City of Cleveland and its borders, particularly downtown, a place where people or companies want to move in -- because our main source of income to run our city is our income tax.

How would you go about making the city a place where companies want to move in?

Keep working on all the quality of life issues. Our school system – something we don’t control, a unique situation, with the mayor controlled, school board appointed, CEO selected by that process and Council has very little legislative authority over it, but it touches us every day. We are working on a stronger partnership and foundation.

Do you have a council strategy for increasing your ability to have an impact on the schools?

A lot of my colleagues want to have an education committee. We’ve talked about it before.

This is a Council level committee?

There is some discussion about it. It is still at the discussion points.

Right now I’m trying to put together an understanding with the Metropolitan School District on how the CEO wants to communicate with us.

Councilman Terrell Pruitt on the Workforce Development. We have a committee called OEO, Office of Equal Opportunities in Employment, but we are moving into Workforce. We just have to change our rules, which will be done by the first quarter.

And in Workforce, there is a significant component of education. An educated individual has a better opportunity in the workforce and to be productive in the City of Cleveland.

I think that is place where we are going to start having some discussions. To have a stand alone education committee by itself is somewhat of a toothless tiger, because our leverage for our committee structure is the approval process -- checks and balances -- an idea and approval kind of thing.

They come to us for two pieces. The stadium debt that is payment through the city to the Cleveland Municipal School District for recreational purposes been $2 million dollars for ever, now its down to a million dollars. We are not going to say we are going to withhold this money to the kids can’t have recreation activity in the school district, so it is really not a piece of legislation that is much other than a pass through.

Has council talked about doing anything to enhance the revenue of the school system? I know the Mayor early on talked about ending a percentage of the tax abatement to get more revenue. There has been some talk on the County level of putting pressure on the big nonprofits like Cleveland Clinic to chip in.

That has come and gone in regards to Mr. Rokakis’ push on making their tax-exempt status be a question.

Or, make them do it voluntarily.

There is still some discussion on that, but the momentum has calmed.

Well, what do you think of that in terms of a strategy to get more revenue to the school system?

More revenue to the school system? -- more revenue to us, though? What’s the balance? Right now Cleveland Clinic and UH they give us a tremendous amount of resources from the income tax. Which is our main generator of income.

The school system gets essentially nothing. They are giving them $10 million as an in kind thing.

I don’t know all those details. You may know more off the top of your head a little bit more. I know there was a discussion. Maybe that is why it calmed down because there was a consideration on a voluntary basis. But the balance of the income tax with the contribution to the city of Cleveland and we are losing out on – I mean the school system get the majority of the property tax, but we get some too, so – We are losing out on property tax as well. It is not just the schools losing out on property tax, an entity that gets property tax is not getting any.

What about ending the school district’s portion of the tax abatement?

I am an advocate of the tax abatement. As we saw four years ago, this Council with my help moving forward, kept the tax abatement as it currently was in the market in the City of Cleveland.

How about reimbursing the school system for tax abatements?

It is up for renewal, next year. We gave them five years and put a set aside so we can talk about it. Last time we didn’t talk about it -- carving out or reimbursing the schools for it. As I begin the dialogue about it, and the question comes up, I’d be more than happy to participate in a full-blown tax abatement what does it mean trying to alter the system we have in place?

Right now, in my opinion, we need as much help as we can get to kick-start the housing market that was booming with tax abatement and now has basically stopped dead in its tracks with it. And, there is a slight spark of housing that goes up in the last year or two.

In five years, we can be at the point where -- probably ten years, if I want to be realistic in this economy -- there is no need for tax abatement because the City of Cleveland is so strong. A lot of people wanting to move in here, -- it is just the market rate causes you to want to live here -- a good school system and a good housing market in transition. It is all the same stuff – it is not magic its connecting the dots and the “s’s” in the City of Cleveland.

The Medical Mart and the casino we have to make sure we get those done right. The highest priority I have now – one of my biggest concern with the Medical Mart is what are we doing with our public auditorium. It is a city of Cleveland asset. Some discussions have us getting $20 million dollars, a building severed from our convention center and getting our building back. And, that is not enough. That means have $20 million dollars in the bank and a building we don’t know what we are doing with.

What is the market value for that piece of prime real estate downtown? What would you like to get for it?

Priceless. It is a city asset. How can we maximize it? Those are the discussions we are having right now. That’s where my focus is -- the Medical Mart’s going up, the casino is going up, convention center and all this -- right now most of those questions are answered. At least we are moving towards full answers.

There is an unanswered question with our public auditorium. $20 million dollars – they said we have that do whatever we want. We can move some employees -- fix it.

But, what’s our use? I want to keep pushing the question of what’s the best use? Is it the use the original plan had? Are we proposing to own it? Are we going to lease it? Tax credits? I want to see the long-term use of the public auditorium, which I don’t see now.

I can see $20 million dollars in our bank account. I can see a beautiful building sitting there separated from the convention center and its just sitting there. What are we going to do now? We going to play soccer in it? Put some plants in it and maybe get a light on top? Do you want to get a big bungie cord and swing? A bowling alley? I need those questions answered. That’s where my focus is.

Doesn’t seem to have a clear sense of what it cost to bring this facility up to speed?

Oh yeah. We have that.

What would you say?

$20 million.

So $20 million wouldn’t be in the bank account. It would go to rehabbing the building.

We can use $20 million any way we want. Have a, have a

Kegger?

One big kegger. We can have a support this social service program. It is what ever we want with it. It’s our free general fund dollar. Or we could sink it in there and help cut a deal. Hope we can use it. Its brand new looking Aldi store? It has no convention center tied to it. How do we market it? We have the Q there. Tie it to Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? What are we going to do with it?

So, it’s the most drastic. What are we going to do with it with $20 million dollars is tear it down? Right? That’s not in the equation. I want to know what the long-term solution is and that’s where this Council and this Administration is going to focus on as we deal with the whole Medical Mart question.

Anything else you would like to add in terms of priorities over the long term?

The things we have some influence over, control of -- is too strong, influence over is not strong enough. We have some influence over the schools, but no control. We do have some less control, but more direct influence on what we do with out housing dollars – what we do with our demo dollars, with the stimulus money. That’s how we can control a little bit more and try to take ownership of that.

In five years as we know, with the income tax kind of driving that. We don’t control it, but we try to promote that. Economic development – we can try to give incentives to the businesses to come here -- if it is not enough for the schools, if its not enough for the housing stock, the transportation, for the cheap cost of living here -- What else can we do as a city can we do to advertise that?

We have one … where we have 350 people moving in downtown because they want to be hip. How many more of those can we get?

You mentioned the population loss, which has reversed, as well as the housing stock.

I’m hoping they are bottoming out now. In ten years from now, I’d like to see 21 Council members.

That means getting back over 500,000. Do you know what the current population estimates are?

The latest estimate is 370,000. The least I’ve heard is 317,000. The highest I’ve heard is 429,000. But the latest from the census is 370,000.

But each one has a direct relationship to our amount of council members. I think we are going end up losing another two council members. But, I really believe in that one-to-25,000 ratio. A lot of the people of the city of Cleveland approved it, and that is how we are going to govern. It is not an area of many council members there are. It is how many people are living in the city of Cleveland. You divide that by 25,000 and it is one council member for every 25,000 people. If you have a million people you are going to have …

Right

We kept going down and down and we kept the same amount of Council members. There is a method to the…

How do you grow population at this point?

Make it a place of choice. Building schools. Get somebody a job --you have a training. Improve the housing stock. And, we have to deal with the residency issue.

In terms of the restructuring of the County government, how do you see that as impacting the city? Does it have a favorable impact?

I’m cautiously optimistic. It is a whole new government. It is going to take them time to figure it out. The structure is not as exact as some people would like it in regards to the charter that they wrote. There is a lot of flexibility, a lot of growth and a lot of decisions nee to be made by the people that are elected. It is not really about what kind of government you have, it is who the people are serving in those seats.

It is that as well as the overall strategy to do economic development.

Right now it is just words. I’d like to see what the outcome of that is. There is some discussion in the print media about what it really means. It depends on which person you are talking to that’s commenting on it that wants to participate in the elected capacity of County government system that’s just passed.

Hasn’t the County traditionally focused more on social services and the city done their own economic development?

That’s their charge. There is a social service majority.

When I have been most successful in getting economic development built up, brought to my attention and become actively involved is when the city, county and the state are working together. --- from Governor Taft’s office, Tracy Nichols who is our director now from the County, and whoever the Director of Economic Development from the City… they got together – they figured out how to get stuff done. Was it is a tax credit, was it workforce development, was it training, whatever dollar amount. They figured it out. So that is a true partnership and it is important.

But, will that still stay the same in the new form of government? We hope so. Hoping there will be a Director of Economic Development and they will focus on county and focus on the city.

Do you think the city will lose influence in the County Government or still stay the central hub of power and influence?

It is a different call. Right now it are three commissioners. In the history that I am familiar with, it is the three commissioners, the mayor and the council president. Those are five people that can play each other off. Right. The Commissioners talking to the Council President -- the Council President fighting against the Mayor, the Mayor fighting the Council President. We are thinking about the bad, in terms of the bureaucracy and not getting stuff done, or positioning yourselves. The thing that I like, that occurred when Frank Jackson became Mayor, and I became Council President, the five became four. Frank and I speak as one when we deal with the County. That was a change to the make-up. It wasn’t the change in the government -- it was a change in the personalities.

Because Mayor (Jane) Campbell would be saying something to one commissioner and Frank Jacskon would be saying to Mike White or Jay Westbrook as it were … That is one of the beauties of the system -- the personalities that are there now. I have an ultimate faith that this Mayor cares about the city and he will not lie to me. He will work his tail off. I think he has the same kind of respect for us. You would have to ask him that.

So you have this scenario now. You have one executive. Right. Six Councilpersons members that are supporters, or more, and then one Council President. So instead of three, it is one plus six, or, one plus one, if there is a Council President, he has to be voted in. So is it six? Are they want to muscle us? Or muscle back? We will protect our assets. If they want to work together. and it is genuine, we can do great things.

I’d didn’t support Issue 6, because I think it puts too much power in one entities’ hands. One guy, six council members, all the eleven elected officers are gone except Bill. All the one point five billion it is consolidated. One plus six you control it. If you want to talk Machiavellian pure raw power -- If you want to talk good government, if it is Machiavellian for the good – then you can do some outstanding things. If it is for the self-interest, you have something very difficult. It is all the personalities that are there.

When you refer to Machiavellian, it brought to mind two recent things, one that appeared in the Plain Dealer in an article that quoted some of your council colleagues. I think it was (Brent) Larkin that did the article. It talked about how the city is in critical need, and something needs to be done urgently now. The other that came to mind, was reflecting back on the Policy Bridge study that was put out several months ago in which they actually talk about doing something which is a de facto form of triage. Whereas, you take those strong neighborhoods and make them stronger, and God knows what was inferred by that about the other neighborhoods. How can you balance those two things out?

Mr. Larkin has his own style. He likes his own opinions, and he is kind of old school. He contacted the old school folks that wanted to talk about this. But, each of those old school folks have been here for thirty years. And they can talk about something positive. I mean the same article could have been look at Terrell Pruitt, Kevin Kelley, Marty Keane, and Eugene Miller. These guys have bright ideas, they are working hard, they are the future of the city and this is what the pretty picture is going to look like. The same set of four council members, different visions, different tones –it would have been an upbeat story. Each one had one sentence to be quoted.

It was a poorly done article.

I think Jay (Ward 16 Councilman Jay Westbrook) would be an example of some … They all got stroked in one way or another. Jay was the best. Mike (Councilman Mike Polensek) this. Rising potential. But I think it doesn’t help to say you can walk out on the city streets and get shot at any time. I could be hit by lightning at any time.

True.

I could be attacked by a pen from the Plain Press people -- only at this critical time when I am by myself. I think I am o.k.

I think you are probably fairly safe.

Did you watch Law Abiding Citizen yet? It’s a rental. It is worth it. …. I did the pen thing because of the one scene in there. We are in close up situation.

You talk about the vital new life you have on Council and you mentioned some council members who exemplify that. When you talk about five or ten year goals of the city, we talk about increasing the population, we talk about increasing business, and yet an overall trend seems to be we have been in thirty years of decline. What are some of these ideas we can look forward to?

It is cyclical. If you look at when there is a cooperative administration and council, and the economic times are at least neutral to plus, good things have happened – Voinovich (former Mayor George Voinovich) and King George (former Council President George Forbes), Mayor White (former Mayor Michael White) and Jay (former Council President Jay Westbrook). And, then the first time. It is economy driven, but also politically driven. If both aren’t in place you could have a great economy, and political infighting and nothing gets done. You could have a terrible economy, and be getting along – and not much can be done. As we currently have at this stage.

My commitment -- this is something in my four year plan. Because I did four years as Council President -- I think Council is more effective, efficient and respectful.

I think we have changed the culture down here to be more respectful. If you notice that we have the four-minute rule, we have fifteen minutes at the table, we are cordial with each other. When I first started here, it was just very discomforting for me how some our Council colleagues treated people that wanted to business in the City. Are we as effective and efficient as we want to be? I think we have improved, but we still have more work to do.

I’ve had my own growth opportunities. Now this term that I have right now I’m focused on two things in regards to internally in the Council. Make tough decisions that this city needs with this administration to help us improve our position as a city within the State of Ohio and the United States of America.

But also, just as equally as important, is to develop the youth of this Council and consciously pay attention to it. If you look at my committee assignments, I’ve asked them to do a lot of work, and not everybody wanted to do it. But if you look at the longevity on Council, I’m fourth in seniority.

Is that right?

Ready for this -- you guys have been around a little bit. Polensek may not be here in four years. Right. This is nothing there is no… One scenario. Right – and this is a point to ponder. No Polensek, no Kenny (Councilman Kenneth Johnson) , No Jay – Polensek, Johnson, Westbrook. No me as Council President. Right And, no Mayor Jackson (Mayor Frank Jackson), as mayor. Right. You know what that is? It is the end of a chapter.

You’ve lost a lot of longevity.

No it is not longevity. It is the end of a chapter. From Marty Sweeney to King George and Mike White. Right. To George Voinovich even. I’m not connected to George (Voinovich), but Mike White I’m connected to, King George I’ve been connected to. Those guys have been there the whole thirty years.

Then there is the next generation. Who is the next mayor going to be? Who is the next Council President going to be? And that’s what I think I owe, not owe, but want to them to be prepared so they can be ready to. Instead of saying ok. I’m not saying I’m going anywhere. I’m not saying Frank’s going anywhere.

It makes sense you want to have another generation of leadership prepared to step in.

And I’m not taking it all for myself. If look like it – I’m Chairman of Finance and chairman of the City. But, Terrell (Ward 1 Councilman Terrell Pruitt) – Workforce, he didn’t want to be Workforce, he wanted it but there are other things he had interest in. Kevin Kelley (Ward 13 Councilman) loved the airport. I said no Kevin– let’s broaden and expand. Let’s understand utilities now. I know streets because that’s my chairmanship I had. I know streets and I know Finance, because that’s what I’ve done the entire time I’ve been here. I’ve never been on the Utilities Committee, I know it because it has to go through Finance, but not the intimate details of what a chairman gets to figure out. And, then you got Phyllis (Ward 5 Councilwoman Phyllis Cleveland). She says I want to be Planning Chair. I want to become a leader of the City and I want to do this. So go learn that. Marty Keane (Ward 19 Councilman) – Airport – Go get them.

What role do the Committees play vis-à-vis the administration? I know you’ve just exposed a philosophy of progress through being close to the administration. What about the other function of Council to monitor the administration? How do those committees play that role and still keep your closeness with the administration?

Just keep it above board and respectful. And if there is a question, if you find something you don’t like, you tell them. You don’t fight about it. We did have a pissy fit with Eddie (Building and Housing Director Edward Rybka) because he didn’t want to have his Commissioner at the table during the budget hearings. That was a pissing match, but it was nothing with policy.

They (the Administration) didn’t want to do streets resurfacing this year with the general obligation bond. I said fine, but we are going to a million dollars in crack sealing to take care of our streets because we need to. They didn’t fight me on it. They said ok.

We have respect for each other. But if it comes to a disagreement, we have a call to make. It is very simple – Approve – Disapprove - or Modify.

How about responsiveness to the citizens? If you are getting a lot of complaints on a council level – let’s say some business comes in for a permit and says it is taking forever and I went down there and all the person had to do was walk it across the hall. Issues like that. You probably get calls all the time. How to you make the administration push things so we get more businesses? If businesses are frustrated how City Hall runs? Or citizens?

Citizens more. Businesses shouldn’t get much of the run around other than getting connected to the right spot. Connected to Economic Development – it is their job to work with them.

What if that is not happening?

And, if there is a frustration there? Normally, we find out what the frustration is. If it means something, or they just didn’t like the answer. Very rarely does it mean they are being totally ignored. That’s on the business side.

I’m in a very unique position as the Council President. I can just walk into anyone’s office and say Hi, can you talk to him? I can walk into the Mayor’s office and say Hi.

It should be that way for everybody, but the reality of the structure we have it is a privilege to be the Council President and have access. I can’t do everything for everybody, but once they find me I can go around. But they shouldn’t have to go through us, the system should work in and of itself. If someone gets stuck, they come to me, they come to whomever, and at least we call the question.

On the constituent though, we get that a ton. That is where the real frustration from the people we represent is witnessed every day. An example, I go to St. Pat’s Holy Name Society once a year -- Marty Keane and I after Monday night Council meeting go have our Corned Beef, give our little gift for the year.

This is St. Pat’s Westpark?

Yeah. We walk in. I saw this gentleman lives on W. 157th Street. He says, Marty the Street Light across from my house has been out for six months and I’ve called two times and I’ve talked to Maureen. (Mayor’s Chief of Communication Maureen Harper) When I hear that I get pissed. So what is going to happen? Angella (Executive Assistant to the Council President Angella Shuckahosee) called Maureen. Maureen called …. Light is not up by Friday, on Monday I’m taking Ivan – come on Ivan we are going in my car to sit under this pole until the light gets put up. A citizen shouldn’t have to wait six months for a light to be put on. I know we have our light system. But they don’t know to keep calling.

Is there a way you can legislate a timetable?

No. We took over all the lights. This is all stuff that is happening. This is a reality of what is happening.

You have been dealing with Henry Senyak. (Resident working to get streetlights turned on in Tremont)

He has the downtown stuff. Henry, I think I’ve grown on him – he’s gone from a zero to probably a two. He has his passion. So, I don’t mind.

He does have that.

I called him back a couple of time. He says he respected that because I am trying to listen.

But just on my situation you shouldn’t have to wait six months. It shouldn’t be on the owner, it shouldn’t be on the constituent that calls. One time should be enough. But I ask my constituents if it is not done by— Then call me back. It isn’t a bother. I have to know, because I think it is done. For the city to make my radar screen -- in his world for the last 5 ½ months – I called his office. And he’s a friend. That bothers me.

In regards to the bureaucracy -- That’s what unfortunately is a significant part of our time. I just want to get caught up make these calls (holds up a folder filled with information from citizen complaints.) That is where, where my

Where your time gets spent?

For this particular month, I love getting caught up, so I can, not have it.

Back to the neighborhood level, what is happening with the block grant in terms of you had talked about the number of CDCs and you had hoped to bring it down. The last time we had talked at a meeting.

The last two or three years there has always been discussion about what do we do with our CDCs

There are what 42 of them?

Thirty-eight – thirty-nine? I know I have one. Bellaire Purtias is the core of Ward 18. They do a great job and I give them a significant amount of the block grant dollars that I have some discretion over. I think it is an absolutely incredible investment – because they work. I can’t comment for every CDC, I know there are some track records some positive, some negative. But, I’ll focus on comment of CDC on mine if you want to ask questions.

Overall there are some discussions. It is from three different worlds – It is from the CDC world, the Community Development Department and the City Council. We are going on a retreat on the 19th to start talking about it. It is the first step of actual discussions on the issue. Instead of whispers going on – I’m working on this. They are working on that. Who is going to pull the trigger?

I think it is a perfect climate to do it, because we have this cooperative relationship with this administration. We have a work ethic in this Council. We have an understanding of the CDC world. So if we are going to do something, now could be a very opportunity to pull the trigger on what could be in the best interest of all the service areas in the city.

Do you think the current system in which an allocation of approximately $400,000 is given to each Councilperson to distribute in the ward is the maximal effective use of CDBG monies?

I could say traditionally its been in existence.

Its tradition, but once again we are talking in the future.

For the short term, everything should be on the table. For right now, traditionally speaking the system is working the way it is. I could talk very specifically to mine. I like having some discretion over dollars. $400,000 out of $26 million and out of a $520 million general fund budget and $1.6 billion City of Cleveland budget overall --- Having $400,000 that have to be distributed for proper use with the income eligible.

Is that a role City Council should be playing? Shouldn’t they just be creating legislation to say here is how block grant dollars should be used? We are the legislature. Rather, than doling it out?

I will argue a little bit, not argue, but comment a little bit.

Just in terms of function.

Not on function, just on the reality of being productive. Not function but productivity. We have an intimate understanding of our areas. Block grant dollars are available for many different eligible uses. Not just block grant, but services that are needed in different parts of the city. I have airplane noise, I have housing stock, and I have some safety issues. That is what I would kind of describe and it is not demolition it is improving the existing housing stock. Those are the issues I have. In ward X it could be AIDS and homelessness. In ward Z it may be it could be vacant lots and safety. Safety is pretty much across the board. So I may choose to use block grant dollars to fill the needs that I have for my neighborhood. Councilman X could fill….

Couldn’t you do the same thing by legislating say safety as a priority and direct the administration to allocate those funds?

We don’t do ward based allocations. We pass laws that are city of Cleveland wide.

But the Block Grant is Ward based.

Because we made it ward based.

That’s what I mean. If you pass

Should we give it all to the administration? Then we have the administration

Set priorities. Then you monitor it and make sure they are doing the things you want to do. I know it’s the way you have been doing it but I’m just saying.

Think about it. In this political climate I have some faith in doing that. We gave up the discretion over park allocations. We cut it up 21 ways over every other year in order to have some discretion over the parks. We have confidence in this administration.

It just happened because of a break down of the administration and the council some years before. They had a disagreement with the administration and they said screw it we are going to take 21 ways.

If you look at the track record of the Council’s expenditures overall, you could pick out a couple of hum dingers I bet that didn’t work out, but when under Councilman Polensek, when he was president we took $500,000 each from this NIF (Neighborhood Improvement Fund). If you look at the expenditures of NIF funds overall, we did a pretty good job. If the administration had done the same thing, would we have had the bang for the buck? I’d put our choices up against anybody’s choices as to where the dollar would go to have the biggest impact for our neighborhoods.

Same thing with block grant, but way back then we had millions. $500,000 block grant, $500,000 NIF plus whatever else we have. I did parks. When we all had parks money. I loved it. I had nine parks. And having nine parks with equal funding every other year, it is not fair, so I’m kind of glad Frank took it. Some people had two parks, maybe one big park, maybe had no parks and they’d still be getting the money and then they would trade it. The money you are getting should be used for the source it was intended and not traded. That’s what I believe. It is nice to have the flexibility to trade. But, I can stand by that premise.

So you think the system is working the way it is?

The system is working the way it is for the way the system is working. You know what I mean? So it is not anything earth shattering. It is just how the system is set up for right now. And, it is not changing this year. We are beginning the process of Community Development Corporation discussions – we are moving from informal discussions to formal discussions.

What is the timeline on that? You are starting in March.

This for next year’s budget, or is it for next fiscal year?

Depends on when we do it. There is no fiscal in this. No. The block grant just ended. We are making decisions on where it goes. By the end of two weeks the decisions for block grant this year are done.

That will take you to 2012? 2011? Is it a one or two year process?

It is a one-year process.

One year.

Yes

Four years ago I thought Bush was going to take it away from us for a minute -- our Block Grant money – what the heck. And the governor says he was going to take the Government Fund away -- $55 million dollars. Those are things that would have a tremendous impact on us, but we didn’t realize they were just discussions.

One of the criticisms of Council and use of Community Block Grant money is that it tends to be overly parochial and bound into the ward. I was very taken by an interpretation that was attributed to you in the Plain Dealer when you talked about delaying the ward changes – the redistricting. It says that your rational for the Charter Amendment is to limit potential neglect of areas Council members will lose to reconfigured wards in the next election.

It is uninterrupted.

But the rational for that it almost seems

It is not about block grant. All that means is that we are asking the people of Cleveland to consider allowing that redistricting occurs not in the middle of a term but at the end of the term. So it would April 1 of the election to be able redistrict the line. When I say uninterrupted for the term when you change the lines in mid term the Council members would know what the lines are. In a perfect world they would focus on their current ward for the entire term. But in reality they could be thinking about the other areas they would be representing and focus on that. And that’s where the term uninterrupted would be, except for that last seven months.

Could you understand how that would lead to a question about whether or not the current Council form of government is maximally effective? What is being said here is there is some potential, some risk that Council people will just ignore areas they are no longer going to be representing. Absolutely, that would be tied into Community Development Block Grant monies, because it is an allocation of resources.

That wasn’t even figured into my comments. It’s just the representation of it. With the redistricting last time, there are some things I didn’t think all the way through. Brian Cummins’ Ward Office being not being part of his ward anymore. Two days before Christmas, what are you doing? He goes, “I’m in my Ward Office.” I’m, “Oh shit. I didn’t think about that.” But, that is just reality -- unfortunate, but reality.

We will just go to CDCs (Community Development Corporations) because that is what you are focused about.

Also, the Councilman’s role as Ombudsman in those circumstances.

That’s where I was. That’s what the comment was. It had nothing to do with CDCs.

With the CDCs, with the current climate is here, the current system that is in place some had concerns about their support and who the councilperson is and if it would be left in the bag.

At least three of them I had the opportunity to sit and give them a comfort level and say let’s see where this thing takes us. And if there is some dire straights, or oversight or just meanness happening I will be more than happy to try to help resolve that issue. Old Brooklyn or whatever the name of the Brooklyn thing is -- there was a nice lady that is the boss that was nervous. Lee Miles was a little bit nervous … It hasn’t materialized – Marty I need fifty or Marty I need twenty. It is working its way out. So, that concern spiked. I gave it a comfort level. During the redistricting there were multiple levels of concerns, residents didn’t like the new change … But the CDCs had their own little concerns just on the survivability and their service area and that kind of thought process.

But that comment was very specific to my realization of when we did the lines. On January 1st those lines were announced. This is where the complication occurred. We were sworn to represent our area until the end of the term, but we had to get elected in new areas because everyone got changed – some more than others. So different Council members reacted differently. Marty Keane and I, we put a whole neighborhood together at Kamm’s Corner -- split it down a railroad line. You look at our area -- it is pretty much trying to be true to keeping as many neighborhoods together.

Yeah. It’s geographically intact.

But here is the … Marty Keane and I decided to have two Councilpersons for each of the wards. I am over on Beach Avenue and … , “Hi I’m Marty Sweeney I’m going to be your new guy. Come up to Bellaire Puritas, Marty’s still your representative, but you can call either one of us. Over on Birchwood and Alger, I ‘m doing the same thing for Marty. We are members of the same Bell Post, going to the women’s guild. That’s how we chose to do it.

In other parts of the city, maybe was one person is leaving, and another person is coming in and the Councilperson would say stay out of there. this is my neighborhood. In other parts of the city, one person is leaving “I’m used to getting this.” The Councilperson says, “I can’t delivery that.” (New Council Person says) “ Let me see if I can.” That is what the comment is about. Having two years of that would be not good.

How can you assure that all citizens in every Ward get some Block Grant dollars directed to them in terms of CDC use? It seems that Councilpersons have their favorite CDCs and they are not encompassing the whole ward, and some get more money than others. There is some dissatisfaction on the neighborhood level, by residents -- particularly in the Stockyard and Clark Fulton in our area – feeling we have been left out and we are not getting the same services as Tremont and Detroit Shoreway, which seem to be favored organizations.

We have to look at the – I am not an expert at this, but I’m going to try to weigh in – you guys are laser focused in your world. But my world, Bellaire Puritas, they got my whole $400,000, go over there, have fun I have my … coordinator … neighborhood service and they do a great job and they move on. I don’t have that dilemma, favorite son or not favorite son. I get $66,000 from the neighborhood service fund, and I want $72,000, but…

Stockyard -- that’s where the Council discretion comes in. I can only give you $300,000, I’m going to give another $100,000 to Stockyard because Stockyard doesn’t service my area.

Where that question comes in is where they have multiple overlapping, and should it be ward based? Should it be service based? Should it be all this? That’s is where we are getting to the point of, if it gets to there, that’s where it might not all be all Council discretion. If we come up with a plan that is City Wide, and we fund it because it is working this way. It is not ward based anymore, it is service area based and the services are designed for the area and the neighborhoods it is impacting.

Initially, the discussion early on, back when Dennis Kucinich was Mayor, was, do we target this money, or do we spread it? Cleveland ended up spreading it to each Council Ward. We never really dealt with the issue of poverty, which I think was …

The genesis of Block Grant dollars

… what Block Grant was for.

Yeah.

Does the City have any – We are so parochial now, each Council Person is doing their own thing – can we focus on a crisis in particular very poor neighborhoods and maybe leave some of the other wards out? Is that a possibility in the current structure? Or, is there just so much, everybody has got to get resources?

I just explained it. If we come up with a system where is not ward based anymore, it is functionally based. But, I’m not going to say my ward doesn’t have this. If we are going to try to tackle poverty and homelessness and that’s the focus of it, absolutely the dollars should all go to it. If we are trying to take care of safety and air plane noise and housing stock of housing violations. I’m -- that’s important.

Then you get more of that pool.

It depends on which decisions you make.

Right.

Keep the outer rings strong, and keep working on the inner ring. That’s what Terri Hamilton Brown taught me, and it stuck in my brain. The outer ring of the city, keep it strong. It goes right to your point and you said what do I do with the inner ring of the city? And, I gave the same thing we are going to continue to improve it.

I think the step we are taking we are actually moving from unorganized discussions to formal discussions about this as a consequence. And, I don’t care how it comes out, as long as it is beneficial for the city.

I’m glad to hear those discussions are occurring. As you know there are CDC as well as the – it is in the wind there is a lot going on now.

They are afraid to pull the trigger. But we are going to talk about it… The clock is ticking – this administration and council – we had one term – this is the next one. Let’s do something. I’m talking to Eric Hoddersen ( President, Neighborhood Progress Inc.), I’m talking to Colleen (Colleen Gilson, Executive Director Cleveland Community Development Coalition), I’m talking to Daryl (Daryl Rush, Director Community Development Department), I’m talking to Tony (Ward 12 Councilman Tony Brancatelli – Chair of the City Council Community Development Committee).

See, you just agreed with Larkin. The clock is ticking.

Larkin, what?

The clock is ticking. We are in a

That doesn’t have anything to do with Larkin. The clock is ticking because I agree with it. I’m not agreeing with Brent. Naw.

You wouldn’t do that?

No, I like Brent, but I don’t agree with that article. I agree the clock is ticking in regards of the timing of the relationship that the current Council and the current Administration has. And, I don’t want to wait.

You want to make use of the relationship you have, to do something.

We started with the Fire Fighters contract, when we first started on the first term, that’s the first thing we did. Then we moved to tax abatement. They we moved to Council reduction. Then we advanced the – I don’t want to be too caviler here – with the domestic partner register we advances a certain population’s rights. Those are the – what are we going to do this next term? Right. We’ve done a bunch of other things but I didn’t want to give you …

These discussions on Community Development will they take place on a Committee level, or?

No. We are going on a retreat.

Is that open to the public and…

If there are more than ten of us it has to be open to the public.

Are there going to be more than ten on your retreat?

Yes. It is a public event.

This is something we can sit in on.

Yes. I would recommend, just coming in quiet. I have no idea where it is at yet. We have twenty and if there are eighty people there… It is a public meeting 19th at Cleveland State – location TBA.

What you have given is actually encouraging. It seems pretty positive. You put some things on table for discussion. The discussion about CDCs is timely, because that is in the wind. The Education Committee is pretty exciting.

It is not an Education Committee – it is, at a least a step in that direction.

Council should have a role if the Mayor does.

But, that is not how it is set up.

I know.

But, and I didn’t finish that -- but having an Education Committee for workforce development or for Workforce Development to have education as part of the committee. -- Workforce Development that is the set up in Council for the long term goal to have the City of Cleveland and Workforce to work together to handle the situations that arise for the job market in the City of Cleveland.

But the non-legislative is a real relationship that is non- legislative that has grown from the two separate bodies the Municipal School System Administration and Council. I have talked very specifically with the CEO. I’m the Council President, and he is the CEO. We have a mutual respect. He doesn’t want to be part of this working group, and I don’t want to be part of his work. I have asked Terrell Pruitt and Marty Keane to sit as our – just like me, or just like him -- in whatever setting we want to go to. So, all the Council people have there own little… But want to get something done, Marty and Terrell, both very good, very level headed, caring guys that really know about the school system. One East, one West, they are my two -- they are going to be able to show up at liaison appointments, negotiators.

That is good to know.

That is just the reality. Where it is. I hope. If not, break out have an education committee, have them over here every day trying to. We are not there yet. With the administration, I have a handle on it – that’s what I’m trying to figure out still.

Speaking of Workforce Development, there is a story in our last issue (March Plain Press) about UCIP-ASAP. (Union Construction Industry Partnership – Apprenticeship Skills Achievement Program). I had talked to the director, she said there was so much demand this year, that the funds ran out in October – and the fiscal year doesn’t end until July. They are applying to the Department of Labor for funds to help in the interim. Are there any plans to increase the budget for next year?

I can tell you that UCIP-ASAP was created to solve the problem that was identified during the discussion on how are we going to get more Clevelanders to work. The contractors were saying it was the unions, the unions were saying it is the contractors. They each told each other they can both jump in the lake.

So Frank, Fannie and myself got together and said let’s figure it out. So they got Loree (Loree Soggs of UCIP) … and who ever they wanted to bring and they wanted 40%, they wanted this and they wanted that. We ended up 20% and $100,000 and we are going to have UCIP-ASAP and we are going to fund if for the first year, and the unions are going to fund it. We are going to graduate 20 per class, three classes per year. We are going to have automatic entry into the unions and once they get pre-apprenticeship, and go into their apprenticeship we are going to have all these great City of Cleveland workers --residents that are eligible for the pool to do all this economic development in the City of Cleveland. What a great plan. I’m not giving up on the idea.

I’ve given you an update in there. They have 18 that have made it to journeyman status now.

From the get—go?

Yes

I just went to another graduation on Friday.

They are still having some problems with people dropping out or being suspended and they started a mentorship program to try to figure that out.

Eighteen? After how many years?

Eighteen individuals have made it through to Journeyman status since it started in October 2003. A lot of those programs are four or five years and a lot depend on people getting a certain number of hours. It means it is working.

It is not as grand as we would have hoped, but there is real – It means eighteen people are better off because of this.

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